Great Questions from my Favorite Movie Reviewer
"Okay, I'm sure I could find the answer to this by going through your site's archives, but I'm at work and therefore don't have that kind of time. Feel free to chide me for being lazy.
But...without getting personal, I have a few questions. For starters, (1)what kinds of things cause the JW's to excommunicate someone? (2)If they would accept you back into their fold, would you want to go back...or was your df'ing something related to "core beliefs." For instance, the Episcopal denomination is currently fueding with itself over homosexuality in the pulpit. It's caused a split in the church proper over "core beliefs." So, is there some aspect of the JW's you disagreed with that led to your df'ing...or do you still hold the same belief system as them but they just won't let you back in officially?
If the answer to the above is "yes", then (3)why would you want to go back to a church that treated you this way? I dont' mean to sound rude, because I'm just honestly asking. Again, I don't know the whole situation, so my questions may come from that ignorance.
Are there any JW fellowships or churches that have cropped up for these df'd people? I would have to think there would be some, but again, that may be my ignorance. Or it may be that there's nothing like that where you live. It sounds like you're in a small group (excommuniated JWs who want back in) and support groups are probably scarce for this, so kudos to you for starting one."
Here's my answer:
1. You can get disfellowshipped for doing things that don’t adhere to bible principles. For instance, the bible condemns adultery, drug use, homosexuality (sorry for the offense to anyone, but it’s true. It is actually in there.), etc.
2. I would definitely go back if I was reinstated. I have no huge issues with anything that Witnesses believe. I merely stumbled along my path and I have to pick myself back up again.
3. Would I want to go back to someplace that treated me that way? The answer is yes because as a JW you don’t really feel you’re being “treated this way”. I mean, I hate being df’d and I wouldn’t wish it on anyone. And heck, I’ll go so far as to say I might not even entirely agree with the practice AS A WHOLE. But I would go back. I am working towards going back. To be reinstated you have to go to meetings regularly (there are three a week) and have corrected whatever it was you got disfellowshipped for. (I’m working on that.)
The thing with not agreeing with it as a whole comes from the fact that I hate that none of my friends can talk to me, even to encourage me to come back. When you know you’re going to be df’d you have two weeks until they make the announcement publicly. If you’re nice enough to warn your friends (I only told one) then they have a chance to say goodbye and encourage you to come back. But you need more constant encouragement. Some are df’d for years at a time. That one last goodbye speech isn’t going to cut it.
But at the same time I do take pride that my religion is one of the few that will actually stand up for what it believes in from the bible. I’ve yet to see a Catholic get kicked out of the church and yet many sins are committed every day (not just by Catholics. They’re merely my example). In most faiths you’re told to say a prayer, get a pat on the back, and “all is forgiven”. So I do appreciate that JWs at least adhere to what they are taught from the bible. I just wish there was another way to go about it.
I’ve never heard of an actual official community or congregation of disfellowshipped ones. I don’t think that a religion formed off it would be good because you’d have all the stubbornness and lots of anger, but no balance. (We must have balance to the force.) I just think that an online community at the very least isn’t a bad idea. I mean, half the reason I’m in therapy is this loss of self that I feel from being df’d. I don’t have anyone to talk to about it who truly understands. I had to explain what Witnesses are to my therapist.
Thanks for the kudos. I’ll add them to my kudometer. ; )
This has turned into a post in itself so that’s what I’m gong to make it. Thanks for the good questions. None of them came off as rude or ignorant. And you probably wouldn’t find the answers to most of them in my archives anyway.
Comments
Back to reality, though, I do think you hit on something very key here: that there has to be another way to go about it than this disfellowship business.
Now, I'll tell you at the outset that I'm a Protestant in the Weslyan tradition of holiness. THat tells us right away that you and I likely hold many differing views on theology. But I don't think that means we can't have an open and honest discussion regarding religion (and specifically this disfellowshipping stuff).
I think that a church needs to be encouraging...a community of faith that supports its members, even after they screw up. I've certainly screwed up many times, and though my church wouldn't and didn't condone my actions, they still did not kick me out.
And it's not even the kicking out that I have a problem with...it's the total communication shut-down, where friends and family are told to ignore the df'd person. That, I guess, is the part I don't understand. A human being needs the support of their friends and family through times of strife. What if, for instance, you suffered a separate tragedy during your time of disfellowship...such as another friend or family member passing away. The df'd nature then wouldn't allow your own friends and family to comfort you over that loss...am I right?
That just seems wrong to me. I don't think it would be constructive to get into the specifics of the JW beliefs versus my own...interpretations of the Bible and whatnot. But this practice of excommunication (which is practiced, by the way, by several other non-JW religions) just doesn't seem very Biblical to me.
It's one thing to stand for something, and say "This is wrong, like it or not, and we can't have it." It's another thing entirely to say "because of your wrongs we we not take you back, we will not hear your comments, we will not even speak to you." Doesn't seem constructive at all. I guess that's why I asked if you would go back. Not to judge that you would, because I'm not in your shoes, but if my family and friends cut me off completely because their church commanded it...I think I'd be leary of returning to that church at all.
Again...hope you don't take any of this personally. I know it's a rough time for you. I'm sorry about that. Perhaps your online forum will be a help to others such as yourself, and that would be a good thing. I would just add that you can hold the same beliefs as the JWs without returning to their fold...your theology can stay the same without re-entering the church that caused you so much pain.
If God is interested in having human beings experience constant sorrow and pain without the comfort of their loved ones...then He's a pretty ruthless God...right?
As you noted getting DFed has been a very traumatic experience for you, making you to feel isolated and alone; even driving you to therapy.
To my way of thinking there is something inherently dysfunctional in a religion that uses the threat of emotional trauma to keep it’s people in line.
To be clear, my mom talks to me about all kinds of stuff still. Some parents wouldn't but mine does. For the most part. (And my dad is catholic so none of this is an issue for him.) But even in the strictest of families, you are allowed to talk to a df'd one about any family matters. a birth, a death, a move, etc. That's totally allowable.
Just wanted that point to be clear. As for the rest of the stuff. . .Well, like I said, I dont' entirely agree with it, but then again why profess to believe all this stuff and then not be able to back it up with action? I don't know. It's complicated.
I do plan to go back though even though being df'd has caused me pain. I have brought some of that on myself as my actions were not admirable. But I've learned from it. Fortunately you don't normally have to jump through hoops to be accepted back.
And on a side note - wow, you guys are commenting on MY blog now. Yay, the tables have turned. I rule, I. . .what? I don't? Oh, okay. :)
I just think there's a better, more loving and supportive, way to let members know that their actions aren't appropriate. Hate to think of you going through all that emotional turmoil again someday should they let you in and you stumble. Because, we are all human, and prone to stumble.
But I don't want to be strictly argumentative or anything. I do wish you the best.
And I commented because your post struck me...hit on something...an issue I had a strong opinion on. Glad that our two blogs can perhaps help drive traffic to one another.
Yes, I love linking to you guys. You should hear me talk to my boyfriend when we're going to see a movie. . ."Well, L&N said it was pretty good so I'd like to go."
"Who?"
"L&N. You know, the movie guys."
lol.
And I didn't find anything in your comments argumentative. You should talk to some of the people I've had to. It gets downright ugly. :) I've never minded talking about religion and I don't intend to stop now just because of my current "status". Thanks for the comments!